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Queer Town

A Changing of the Guard at the Westwood March

By Patrick Range McDonald, Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 1:29AM
Comments (38)
Categories:

Fore more photos, view Ted Soqui's Westwood protest slideshow.

Related Posts:
Patrick Range McDonald's "The Last, Passionate Rant of a Long Night in West Hollywood"
Patrick Range McDonald's "The Long March to the Mormon Temple"
Joe Donnelly's "Election 08: What Happens To A Dream Deferred? Prop 8 Protest in WeHo"
Patrick Range McDonald's "Queer Town: Catholic Fall Out Over Proposition 8"

A few minutes after 4 p.m., on Thursday afternoon, the "No on 8" march in Westwood had come to a complete halt. It wasn't that the crowd of a few thousand gay and straight protesters didn't want to keep walking north on Westwood Boulevard. It was just that the Los Angeles Police Department had encircled them with a crush of motorcycle and bike cops and flat foots outfitted with riot helmets and armed with black batons. The scene, already charged with high emotions, started to feel very, very heavy.

Westwood%20March%20047.jpg
"No on 8" protesters at the Westwood March are stopped to a stand still at Westwood Boulevard and Ohio Avenue on Thursday afternoon.

For a long ten or fifteen minutes, no one knew how it was going to play out. But the protesters were documenting everything with digital cameras, video equipment, and cell phones...just in case the peaceful march suddenly went sideways.

A few minutes later, an officer wearing a riot helmet spoke over a mobile public address system. He told the protesters they could start marching again, but asked them to stay away from motorists in the southbound lane of Westwood Boulevard.

"Keep in mind," the officer said in an even voice, "a lot of people are being inconvenienced."

The quick lesson in protest etiquette didn't go over well.

"We're being inconvenienced!" screamed a young woman in her early twenties. "Our rights are being taken away!"

With that, the crowd around her yelled out a spontaneous, new chant.

"What she said! What she said! What she said!"

The officer never again spoke about the inconveniences of civil disobedience for the rest of 5-mile march through Westwood and Century City.


Westwood%20March%20055.jpg
Marchers head north on Westwood Boulevard to Wilshire Boulevard in Westwood.


Fourteen hours after the Wednesday night marches took place, when a few thousand gay and straight protesters surprised much of Los Angeles, and probably the entire country, by taking their anger over the passage of Proposition 8 to the streets of West Hollywood and Hollywood, a crowd filled with men and women in their teens, twenties, and thirties were again hitting the pavement and stopping motorists in the traffic-congested neighborhoods of Westwood and Century City.

This kind of thing had happened before. In 1991, California Governor Pete Wilson vetoed a bill that would have prevented employers from firing people because of their sexual orientation. For nearly seven consecutive nights, young gays and lesbians, already angered by politicians' poor to non-existent attempts to stop the devastating destruction of AIDS in the gay community, marched on Sunset Boulevard, took over a runway at Los Angeles International Airport, and stopped traffic at different intersections throughout the city. For a town with an inadequate public transportation system, it was the perfect kind of disruption--anyone who drove a car in L.A. soon found out that a whole bunch of people were pissed off and wanted satisfaction.

Over the past several years, though, gay rights rallies have involved older men and women, with little turn out from the young crowd. Proposition 8 seems to have changed that, with not only a new generation of gays and lesbians taking over the streets, but many of their straight friends have been joining them.

"Something has happened in L.A. the past two days," Dave Valk, a 21-year-old senior and political science major at U.C.L.A., told me at the Westwood March. "The youth are taking over. And it's really more about a youth movement, than just a gay movement."


Westwood%20March%20078.jpg
Dave Valk stands outside the Los Angeles Mormon Temple on Thursday night.


Empowered by the Election Night win of Senator Barack Obama, who won a huge youth vote, high school and college students and recent college graduates have now taken the "Yes We Can" mind set to the "No on 8" cause. And in weird, unintentional ways, the older gay and gay-friendly establishments seem to be spurring them on.

On Wednesday night, for example, West Hollywood City Councilwoman Abbie Land stood on top of a L.A. County Sheriff's Department police cruiser at the intersection of San Vicente and Santa Monica boulevards. The "No on 8" rally had just ended, and Land, with West Hollywood Mayor Jeff Prang standing on another police cruiser near her, begged the emotionally raw crowd to disperse.

"You can't block traffic!" she yelled without a bullhorn. "We have to open up the streets!"

The twenty-somethings stared at Land as if she was crazy, immediately shouting back, "Hell, no! We won't go!" The councilwoman kept trying to reason with them, but then a young woman screamed into a bullhorn, "Don't listen them to people! Now is the time to fight back!" Land was outmatched, and the protesters didn't back down.

Within minutes, the police cruisers left the scene, allowing the protesters to march east on Santa Monica Boulevard and then north on Larrabee Street and up to Sunset Boulevard. From there, they chanted all the way to Hollywood, stopping in front of the CNN Building. If Abbie Land had her way, that important march for the "No on 8" cause, which was broadcast, at the very least, throughout Los Angeles, would have never happened.

That march also immediately got the attention of CNN. The next day, the cable news giant aired the protests at the Los Angeles Mormon Temple on live, nationwide TV. Not only that, young people--gay and straight--who had never marched for anything, anywhere suddenly caught the protest bug.

"I've never felt so prideful and happy to be a part of something and really want change," Shae Savin, a 20-year-old junior at Pepperdine University and civil disobedience newbie, who marched to the CNN Building, told me after the march. "I became quite emotional."

For the rest of that evening and into the early morning, young crowds walked from one place to another without any real leaders. Unlike the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who regularly walked the streets for the civil rights movement, the "No on 8" leadership, which includes power gays from the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center, the Human Rights Campaign, Equality California, Lambda Legal, and others, didn't seem to be around. Which may not be a bad thing for a youth movement that apparently wants to take over.

While it's far too early to say Proposition 8 has started a new era of fully-engaged and politically savvy activism among the Echo Boom crowd, something does seem to be brewing...at least in Los Angeles. Nowhere was that urge to shake things up and push through some kind of changing of the guard than at the march in Westwood.


The "No on 8" rally at the Los Angeles Mormon Temple in Westwood was first called by L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center Chief Executive Officer Lorri Jean on Wednesday night, when she told a crowd of thousands in West Hollywood that she wanted to hold a "conversation" with the Mormon Church. She said it with a certain kind of menace in her voice, and the audience ate it up and cheered her on.

The next day, a few thousand people showed up at the temple on Santa Monica Boulevard with home-made signs and banners. From the get-go, they were loud, angry, and ready to roll. Jean then held a press conference, telling a horde of television, newspaper, and radio reporters about a new web site to "invalidate" Proposition 8--www.invalidateprop8.com. When that pitch was over, the protesters marched around the finely manicured property of the Mormon temple. It only took thirty or forty-five minutes.


Westwood%20March%20003.jpg
"No on 8" protesters walk around the iconic Los Angeles Mormon Temple.

Jean, the de facto gay leader on the scene, then took off for somewhere, but the protesters wanted more. It had already been rumored that a march to the Federal Building on Wilshire Boulevard would take place, so after thirty minutes of standing in front of the temple, the protesters, led by no visible high command, headed west on Santa Monica Boulevard and then north on Westwood Boulevard.

By Ohio Avenue, the crowd of a few thousand people were stopped by the Los Angeles Police Department. After a tense showdown, the cops let them continue to Wilshire Boulevard. Sean Woodward, a 21-year-old, openly gay man from Sherman Oaks, walked with his straight buddy, David Kun. It was the first time Woodward had undertaken any kind of civil disobedience action.

"I think 8 is unconstitutional," Woodward explained for his new activism. "And I want kids and a husband." He then said, "The (presidential) election raised a lot of awareness."

As we passed people standing on the sidewalk, some of whom cheered the marchers on, I told Woodward I had covered gay rights rallies before, and I had never seen so many young folks--gay and straight--take to the streets together. Kun, who walked next to us, nodded his head. "It's because our generation is more open-minded," he said. "Sean is my best friend, and I totally understand how he feels."

The crowd then started chanting, "What do we want?! Equal rights! When do we want it?! Now!"

By Wilshire Boulevard, though, the heavily-geared LAPD had once again boxed in the marchers with motorcycle and bike cops. People stood still, others sat down, and a few guys started yelling to the crowd that they should head east on Wilshire Boulevard. Chris Hillman, a 28-year-old documentary filmmaker, dressed in a green shirt and a green baseball cap, was one of them.

"We want to pass through (the motorcycle cops) peacefully," he told the crowd.


Westwood%20March%20054.jpg
Marchers face the LAPD in Westwood.


The marchers listened, and soon they side-stepped the cops and walked in the eastbound lane of Wilshire Boulevard, heading towards Beverly Hills. I caught up with Hillman and asked him if he was a leader. He smiled.

"I am," Hillman said.

I asked if he was the official leader of the march or if he just took on the role as things played out. It was an on-the-spot decision, he told me.

"I made the choice to take my own power and use it," Hillman explained.

The documentary filmmaker, who also heads up a media consulting web site called www.celebintl.com, was straight, didn't really follow the Proposition 8 campaign before the ballot measure was passed, but was outraged when it did. "This is the new civil rights movement," he said.

Hillman was also a supporter of Barack Obama, saying the gay-and-straight alliances within the marches "never would have happened if he wasn't elected." He also talked a kind of Obama-ese when he said the passage of Proposition 8 was caused by a "lack of compassion and empathy in our society."

Sounds good, I thought to myself, but after walking with the marchers for all of Wednesday and now on Thursday, I couldn't stop wondering if the young crowd had any substantive, long term plans to harness their outrage. I asked Hillman, but he seemed to think I was getting ahead of myself. "If marching makes one person think differently on their ride home," he said, referring to the motorists we continually passed in the street, "then it'll make a difference."


Westwood%20March%20070.jpg
The Obama factor makes an appearance at the Westwood March.


Soon after that, the marchers were stopped once again by the bike and motorcycle cops. The sun was quickly setting, and the sky was growing dark. The tall condo apartments of Westwood loomed around them. Out of nowhere, an older man with a goatee and dressed in slacks and a collared shirt started talking with the cops. He was Rodney Scott, the president of L.A. Pride, the group that runs the Gay Pride Parade in West Hollywood.

Scott had apparently been working behind the scenes with the LAPD, although he said he was not leading the march. "We've been assisting the LAPD to make sure people in our community are safe," he told me later. "This protest is not led by anybody."

As Scott conferred with the police, Dave Valk, the 21-year-old political science major from U.C.L.A., was having his own talks with the LAPD. Scott and Valk, although they didn't know it at the time, had different ideas of where the march should head. Scott suggested to the police that the march should continue east on Wilshire to Santa Monica Boulevard and then east on Santa Monica to West Hollywood. Valk, who told the cops he was one of the leaders of the march, wanted to go to Santa Monica Boulevard, too. But he wanted to head back to the Mormon Temple.

Michael Sanchez, an openly gay man and West Hollywood resident in his thirties, heard about the opposing routes and started discussing them with his friends. "Going back to West Hollywood is like walking in our own neighborhood," one guy said. "We need to get outside of that." None of them liked the idea.

The cops apparently approved both routes. Valk later told me the LAPD gave the green light for his suggestion, and I heard another cop okaying Scott's plan. The march, once stalled, then continued east to Santa Monica Boulevard.

Now the protesters were chanting, "Gay, straight, black, white, marriage is a civil right!" Nighttime had come, and I caught up with Michael Sanchez, who had donated money to the "No on 8" campaign, but didn't do much more than that. "I think that's something a lot of us are regretting right now," he said.

Sanchez was also disappointed with the "No on 8" leadership. He had been on the phone with one gay official on Wednesday, Sanchez said, and told him that someone in the "No on 8" campaign should organize and be ready to hit the streets after the West Hollywood rally. The official didn't listen.

"No one was there last night," Sanchez said with annoyance. "They weren't prepared for the walks."


Finally, the protesters reached Wilshire and Santa Monica boulevards. The big question of who would go where was about to be settled. With traffic stopped by the LAPD, Scott led the front of the march into one of the busiest intersections in the Los Angeles area. From a tactical point of view, it was a solid, civil disobedience decision. It was 5:40 p.m., and traffic was jammed in the middle of rush hour. The mission to disrupt Los Angeles in a major way was completed.

But a whole bunch of people had no intention of walking back to West Hollywood, with Valk, Hillman, Sanchez, and a few others leading the way back to the Mormon temple. Some older folks tried to get the crowd to reverse itself, but the younger crew wasn't listening and chanted, "Temple! Temple! Temple!" Two-thirds of the marchers made the right turn onto Santa Monica Boulevard.

After several minutes, Scott and his friends abandoned the West Hollywood route. They had no choice but to take up the rear of the march, with the younger guys--gay and straight--walking point. It was a symbolic moment, although no one seemed to realize it at the time, or fully understood what it all meant.

Next Big (or organized) March: Saturday, November 8, Sunset Junction, 6 p.m., Silver Lake. Go to www.answerla.org for more information.


Contact Patrick Range McDonald at pmcdonald@laweekly.com.

Tags:

Barack Obama, gay marriage, LAPD, Los Angeles Mormon Temple, No on 8, Proposition 8, UCLA, Westwood March
Comments (38) Write Comment
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Comments (38)

LORI says:

Prop 8 was largely won by out-of-state money and door to door soldiers from the Mormon church. Please go to
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/#petition as part of a grassroots effort to get the Mormon (LDS) church tax exempt status revoked. I hate that Prop 8 passed, hate that my son cried and asked if we could no longer live as a family, and while taking this effort is not satisfying enough, it is a start. "Follow the money" was the phrase in "All the President's Men" which led to the downfall of corruption - let's all do the same here. The Mormon church's activities, often underhanded, must be understood, must be stopped. Taking away their tax exempt status is the first step - if they're largely responsible for spreading the lies, the least we can do is spread the truth.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 10:30AM
TJ says:

More photos from the protest available here.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 10:54AM
Dropping By says:

Yes, by all means -- try and get the Church's tax-exemption revoked. Spend months of your lives and millions of your dollars -- because it's a complete waste of time. Everything the Church did was perfectly legal, and anyone who suggests otherwise must have flunked 9th grade Civics.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 11:27AM
Smich says:

This is by far one of the most in depth articles I was able to find on the activism that has been taking place in Los Angeles. I’m sure there will be plenty of marches to go, keep up the good work!

Mad props to everyone who is out there bringing awareness to the injustice that was passed by the people of California!!

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 12:25PM
Mark Mulhall says:

Well, this is the best written article I have read yet about the protests (and I've been reading a lot). I am a 50 year old seasoned protester from the Act Up days. I marched Wednesday & Thursday nights, and I have to agree 100% with this article.

The Wednesday night protest was a real eye opener. I was marching with a mixed group of all races, just like LA itself. And they were YOUNG. Serious. Informed. And quite a few were...straight. At one point (I think it was on Santa Monica Blvd around midnight, but I'm not sure) The crowd quieted down and began to sing The Star Spangled Banner. I cried. Around 1am I started wondering why we were still marching. No helicopters, no media, no one to watch us. It was pure anger and passion! I marched until 1:30 when my feet finally gave out. They apparently continued until 3am!

My feet were still hurting on Thursday when I tuned in to the temple march on CNN. My anger got the better of me, and I dragged my lover onto the #4 bus and off we went. It seemed like a smaller crowd, but otherwise the same deal as the night before. We found the march at Wilshire & Westwood (just look for the helicopters) and joined in. We marched down wilshire (barely missed the eggs being thrown from a lady on the 11th floor), hung a right onto Santa Monica past Century City and back to the Temple. After the Jewish Wedding in front of the Temple, We marched back down Santa Monica & Little Santa Monica through Beverly Hills (They all came out of the restaurants to cheer us!), and into West Hollywood. We figure that's almost 10 miles!

The Gay and Lesbian Center, WeHo City and the No on 8 ALL really have to wake up! They sat FOR 2 DAYS waiting for a vote count on a very close race. Where was plan B? Oh, we didn't have one! A 1" red square on the centers website is NOT an effective call to arms! Where were the posters? email and phone trees? Club marketing? Now THAT would be a great follow-up article!

Things have got to change. Thank God for my new found friends...

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 1:05PM
Max says:

Only in LA would the primary concern of the government be keeping traffic moving. Unreal.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 1:20PM
todd says:

It would have been nice if the "protestors" hadn't left their signs and other trash in people's yards. Having a march to raise awareness is one thing. Littering and having little regard for others is quite another. That does not help the cause...

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 1:34PM
LORI says:

Hi "Dropping By" - sore spot, huh? I didn't flunk 9th grade civics or law school. The Mormons are going down for their crimes - they're welcome to believe what they want, just not act as a political organization under the guise of a tax exempt religion, spread lies and extort money from businesses who donated to NO on 8 - see the AP wire story. Boycotting Marriott Hotels sounds like a great idea, too. With fanatics, the best thing to do is hit them where they live - with these folks, it's not morals and integrity, it's money.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 1:50PM
Mike says:

Marriage is not a right. It is a contract between a man and a woman that the government just happens to make a fee from for recording it. I have to agree with a friend of mine who told me that this whole deal is about a small group of people trying to make life difficult for another. While we agree on his assumption, we disagree on the parties - Christians & Gay right's activists. This is about a definition, not rights! The rights are already available to all within our great state.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 2:04PM
Jennifer says:

I understand the plight, but does the group think by angering thousands of people they are going to win support? I voted no on the prop, but I am now irked -- almost angry -- at the mob that shows no respect to the local home owners or people who work here in Westwood. Not the way to win support!

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 2:49PM
thyner says:

HOw come no one is reporting on the Mormon Samoan thugs who ripped up protestor signs and beat up a couple protesters????
http://cbs2.com/video/?id=82533@kcbs.dayport.com

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 3:02PM
Tom Coleman says:

Wasn't so long ago that racism was firmly institutionalized with the Mormons. This policy ended via a "devine revalation" conveniently timed to deal with a rapidly emerging boycott against them in the 1970's. They also dropped polygamy for Utah to become a state.

Once prudent, reasonable and effective pressure is brought to bear on the marriage issue, don't be surprised to see and hear another burning bush solemnly intone: "never mind." Then they will have to find some other group to go after.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 3:30PM
John says:

hohum... a non-issue.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 3:44PM
Lynette says:

I do not think this is something we should have had to vote for to begin with. This is not a civil rights issue it is a moral issue. Not to mention using African Americans and the civil rights movement as an example when it is convenient need to stop. Illegal immigrants (in which current laws on the books have been ignored and not enforced) and gay people have never been listed as a commodity or a piece of property next to cows, sheep, and hay nor have there ever been signs posted at public rest rooms and water fountains that say gay only or illegal immigrant only. The issue is with god and the churches. The general public for the most part has expressed tolerance, respect, and acceptance. I have to say in closing, I'm not surprised the Catholic Church wasn't a lot more vocal on this issue especially since they need to let their priest have families so they can leave the little boys and girls alone.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 4:21PM
Patrick Range McDonald says:

Hey Lynette,

The Catholic Church was still a big factor. Read my post titled "The Catholic Fall Out Over Proposition 8." The church was just a little careful than the Mormons, and No on 8 leadership, for whatever reason, hasn't targeted the Catholics the same way as the Mormons...so you don't hear a big uproar about them.

Take care,
Patrick

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 4:30PM
Tyrece says:

ya need to get off your high horse and recognize that mormons were only part of the funding/support for prop 8. the knights of columbus and protestant churches funded it as well. Stop blaming the mormons for what a majority of LA county voted for

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 4:45PM
busytimmy says:

Let's march on the cathedral downtown Sunday morning! The Catholic Church adn Cardinal Mahoney in particualr need to be held accountable for their oppression of gay Californians, indeed all Californians. Los Angeles is the largest diocese in the USA. Let's show them our sadness anger and determination!

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 6:23PM
Byron says:

While I'm proud that our community has made a ruckus, we would have been better served if gay families had marched weeks ago, not in anger, but in affirmation, with rallies not in West Hollywood, but the valley and inland empire. Perhpas the LA Gay and Lesbian Center could create some "freedom rides" to nearby SoCal areas that seem very ignorant of who we are.

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 6:48PM
Mike Skiff says:

Patrick, you really covered the epic-ness of that march. Amazing. And you brought out, especially with the participation of our great youth, the truth about civil disobedience - It discomforts. It pushes people out of there comfort zones. Like the young woman off from work, waiting for the bus stuck behind hundreds of protesters: "I support your cause, but why won't you let me catch my bus?" I said, "Would you have said that back in the days of the black civil rights movement?", and she just shook her head like it wasn't the same.

Our community is in shock right now. We hurt and we have started the process of healing. If taking over our streets, like some people think they can take over our lives, help us and helps call attention to our commitment. Otherwise, the general public will think it never really mattered that much to those gays anyways.

Lastly, I read an editorial in the LA Times from a straight woman at the Nov 2 WeHo "No On 8" rally. She was troubled that, while a few hundred protesters, both gay and straight, showed up at the corner of Santa Monica & San Vincente, she saw so many more gays busy drinking cocktails at the patio bars instead. On the radio, before the election, I heard one of our straight allies how'd worked the "No On 8" phone banks, worry on the air about how there was a disproportionate turn out of straights to gays working the phones.

How badly do we want this?

Posted On: Friday, Nov. 7 2008 @ 11:42PM
Martin Friedlander says:

The Mormon Church gains all of its power and dominance throught the rquired 10% tith. This tith is tax deductible to the give and exempt to the recipient. The church must chose whether it is to be a legitimate religious institution or a PAC. The only way this can be accomplished is by amending the tax code of the US and California to remove the deduction and the exemption. Pressure must be put on Senator Harry Reid, a Mormon, who is the Democratic Party leader in the Senate that unless the Senate enacts this legislation he will be removed as Leader. He has to be forced to make the same choice. That is why I suggest that Harry Reid be replaced by Hillary Clinton as its new leader.

History demonstrates the effectiveness of the Tax Code. Law enforcement could not convict Al Capone for any crime that he commited, including cold blooded murder. Instead accountants for the government nailed him for tax evasion and sent him on a long vacation in Alcatraz.

Martin S. Friedlander, Esq.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 12:01AM
Phillip says:

It is EXTREMELY important to harness this energy and motivation to keep it going. However, it must continue to be respectful. Why use hate against hate? Using words such as "bigots" and defacing property is no way to behave when you're fighting against hate. I was at the protests and very proud of it, full of anger and volatile emotions myself. But as we consider how to proceed, we need to keep in mind - THE NATION IS WATCHING. How do we want to be perceived? As sore losers and an angry minority? Or a group who is speaking up against an injustice? I prefer the latter. No more slurs of bigotry but a focus on educating the rest of the nation that the civil rights movement is far from over.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 12:03AM
Dave O'Brien says:

No civil rights movement throughout history has EVER progressed by being polite. LGBT peoples' lives are re-routed every day by bigotry and intolerance. I agree that fighting to remove the LDS church's tax status is off message. While they played a major role in our losing this battle, we need to focus our energy on RECLAIMING OUR RIGHTS...not on challenging theirs. Several people have mentioned that the Catholic Church was also a major player, and I've heard that there's a rally being planned for Sunday, although I'm not sure who's planning it I plan to show up...

SUNDAY NOVEMBER 9
CATHEDRAL of OUR LADY OF THE ANGELS
12 NOON to 3 PM
555 West Temple Street
Los Angeles, CA

http://www.olacathedral.org/

Easy access to Metro Red Line train to The Civic Center station.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 9:28AM
Oliver says:

Aye you stupid up there thyner I'd kick you in the face for saying that. You dirty little racist. Don't mess with the Samoans like that and they won't mess you up.
It does not matter what anyone says. This country was built on principals of Christianity and it will forever stand as a Christian country. We as Christians have been taught to accept other religions and we do. We will not however allow "gay marriage".
From an economic standpoint, what good will "gay marriage" do for this country, NOTHING!
And for y'all who say this is supposed to be some kind of right. Well guess what, ITS NOT! And I'll fight for whats right until the very end if I have to.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 9:39AM
Anne says:

Don't you understand? No one, including Mormons care if you get tax breaks, hospital rights or any other benefits that married people get. Really, no one cares! You can have all the tax benefits you want. You can live your lives however you want and not one Mormon cares. The problem is that you want to change how WE live our lives. You want to change how text books are written, how marriage licenses are written. You want to force churches to preach what you find acceptable and sue them if they don't. You believe that you are the only group of people who have the rights to say and do what you want. This is where the battle comes from. You want to destroy an institution. And considering that all of the people who voted for Obama and for Prop. 8 too were probably not mormons,you should understand that it's not just one religion that feels this way.
If you were as loving and tolerant as you say you are you wouldn't have started this battle by threatening our rights to live our religions. Do you REALLY believe that everyone is entitled to believe as they wish or is that right only reserved for gays?

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 10:43AM
Cal Godot says:

It's tragic that Prop 8 passed. Tragic that the "No on 8" forces were late in coming to the game, disorganized, and in the end failed in their ability to frame their position on the issue in such a manner as to inspire "undecideds" to vote on the issue. (Check out the difference in the number of people who voted vs. the number of people who cast any kind of vote on 8.) Things would have been different, had the "No on 8" forces taken things more seriously, rather than walking around half-complacent with their confidence that "it won't pass" - I can't tell you how many "No on 8" people believed this delusion! I know about a dozen students at UCLA who did not go out and vote because they were certain 8 would never pass.

And now they show their stupidity by blocking traffic in neighborhoods where people overwhelmingly voted against Prop 8.: the West side and West Hollywood. This is as dumb as rioting destructively in your own neighborhood. After my normally 45-minute commute was turned into a 3-hour torment, I vowed these idiots will NEVER get my support again. They spit in the face of the very people who supported them. It would have been better for them to keep it at the Mormon Temple, or take their protest to Inglewood or East Los, where the measure was overwhelmingly rejected. Of course, these over-priviliged delinquents are far too chickenshit to even step into one of those neighborhoods. Instead the ego-centric know-nothing "organizer" wanted to see herself on CNN, so they had to disrupt traffic, had to march to the CNN building.

I hope Prop 8 is rescinded. I hope the courts blast it down. I hope if there is another vote in 2 years it is voted down.

But I will not be one of the people voting it down. I won't vote for it, but by demonstrating their selfish lack of consideration for the very people who supported their position, these arrogant asses have lost my support. (And I am encouraging every person I know who was inconvenience to let "No on 8" leadership know this is what they can expect from us.)

Protests like this never accomplish anything, except allowing a few over-privileged young adults to feel good about themselves for a moment. the people who organized this protest will never do any of the hard work, will never go door to door or stuff envelopes or do any of the "boring" work that actually gets things accomplished. Look at their arrogance: they are "disappointed" in the long-time activists who oppose such senseless show-off antics. The gay leaders who have worked for YEARS on this issue are not good enough for the blowhards who organized the protest: I'll bet half those students didn't even go out to vote, and their "seriousness" about this protest was a lot of guilt and shame coming out. If they really cared, they wouldn't denigrate the hard work (albeit belated) that did go into the "No on 8" campaign.

Nope. They want to be on TV. That's all this was about. A bunch of spoiled brats ruining the evening for tens of thousands of Angelenos, just to assuage their own battered egos.

Youth, as they say, is wasted on the young.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 11:06AM
Andra says:

In response to Martin Friedlander's bafoonish comments here: "The Mormon Church gains all of its power and dominance throught the rquired 10% tith. This tith is tax deductible to the give and exempt to the recipient. The church must chose whether it is to be a legitimate religious institution or a PAC" -MARTIN

Tithing is given to churches by choice or by the persons own free agency! If this was not the case it would be called a tax and not a tithe

Now if the L.D.S. Church or Catholic Church themselves donated money (Or Tithing money they received from their members was donated) then they should not be tax exempt. But if members of a denomination give money on their own how should that punish the Churches. If this is your silly argument? We should track down every person that donated money to Barack Obama's Presidential campaign to see if they attend a church and remove their tax exemption, because obviously the church got involved in Politics... or maybe not! So to be super clear lets say that Jimmy is a catholic , and donated money to Obama! The Catholic Church did not give money to Obama.

But truth and reason really is not the point is it!!! We get it everyone is mad so reason is out the window. Irrational behaviour is annoying! You see I think every straight person should picket the streets of SF, W Hollywood, and Palm Springs maybe I could hold up a sign that says "Vaginal Intercourse is Great" or "Straight Pride". Wait.... Thats right.... that would be super annoying! I know that really sounds stupid but how are you helping your cause.

TRY A DIFFERENT ANGLE PLEASE

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 1:18PM
pgauge says:

I look forward to the massive street protest marching through South Central in order to demonstrate that these protestors have the courage of their convictions.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 2:11PM
CK says:

Anne and Oliver and all you others that defend the passing of Prop 8... you just DON'T get it... you can have your religion, pray to what and whoever you want to, that matters nothing! And we DO NOT and CANNOT, as you suggest, have all the rights that you as a married heterosexual have, so please stop the pathetic wilful ignorance.

I am happy for churches to believe what they want, but when they become politicized (remember that we as a country are supposed to support the separation of church and state), they run into trouble, whether from us or others that they wrong with their actions. in this case, the Mormons especially, with many millions they and their supporters gave, as well as the other sects that politicized their platforms, should suffer the consequences of their bigotry driven actions.

Say what you like, but we are DONE with being your whipping posts, DONE with your bigotry... live YOUR life and let everyone else have equal access to the rights that you have. Fine by me, but do not take our rights to CIVIL marriage away. Keep your church weddings if you want, but the ceremony that the government performs and requires for a couple, should be equal either way. Simple. Churches that are willing to marry gay couples can then do so. Great if they do, so what if they don't I don't give a flying f*ck.

Equal CIVIL rights. THAT is what it is about!

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 4:20PM
CK says:

Andra, you forget you do not NEED to hold up a sign, because you are not being discriminated against If you do not support this action, you are obviously aligned with the YES on Prop 8 bunch. If not, you may as well be. We will not be nice and quiet any longer to appease all who will discriminate.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 4:23PM
Oliver says:

This is not a political issue! Its about whats right and what is wrong. The government should NOT allow any "gay couple" that privilege. All of you all who are upset about how the people voted, against prop 8, are just being stupid. Move to Massachusetts or Connecticut I believe that they will allow you all to get married if you want to. Which works well for me because then I will not have to worry about having to look at any of you stinkers.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 5:54PM
skimmy says:

I am sorry that you did not ge your way on prop8. Maybe if you weren't sleeping with the same sex and breaking the laws of NATURE You wouldn't have to worry about it. Go get a freaking lawyer to file the necessary paperwork to protect your partner or whatever in the event of tour death and get over it. Marriage has been between a MAN and a WOMAN since time began. So if you want to get married go find someone of the opposite sex and do it already but don't try and be like heteros when you know you never will. God made MAN and WOMAN for a reason. Have you not read the story of Soddom and Gamorrah? Where do you think the word Sodomy comes from? Sodomy is unnatural sex and that is what Gays are doing and it is a sin and an abomination in the eyes of God.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 5:57PM
Oliver says:

Aye one more thing you all are spelling "tith" wrong it's spelled "tithe". Try using a dictionary you ignorant fool (Martin).

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 6:02PM
Jeff says:

As a member of the LDS church myself, I am sorry to see the poor display of behavior conducted by those that claimed to be mormon and attacked the protestors. We are a peaceful people and it is sad to see a select few show such a terrible display of charity and kindness.

It is difficult to describe to those that do not believe and view marriage as we do the reasons why we pushed and voted the way we did. I have gone around and around on several forums and it is simply a different perspective.

It should be noted that while the LDS church was a significant contributor it is not the sole or the most significant contributor for Yes on Prop 8. Additionally, 52%, a majority, of CA agrees with the LDS and other religions that marriage should stay between a "man and woman." Lastly, tithing is not the only money that members contribute. Many of the members give more than 10% and give for specific causes. For example, on top of my tithing I donated money and time to "yes on prop 8". That money may be claimed different than tithing (tax exempt) and thus be used for specific fund raising enterprises.

Now I realize I will probably be criticized, but I have tried to be polite and professional in this post and hope you will in return.

Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 @ 9:16PM
John S. says:

I think the Protesters should march in the Watts area to protest the Black's 70 % to 30 % vote.

Posted On: Sunday, Nov. 9 2008 @ 1:02AM
LORI says:

The BOYCOTT on Mormon-contributors' businesses has begun. A lengthy list can be found at http://soqueer.blogspot.com/2008/11/boycotts-begin-damnit.html
It includes many Denny's, El Pollo Loco restaurants, Marriott Hotels (including Residence Inns and others), Ahmanson Theatre, and many "local" businesses. If particular Mormons contributed to stealing my rights, I have no qualms about "paying them back" in ways which are far less underhanded than the way they dealt their unkind blows. It's too bad I can't VOTE to take away their civil rights until they come to their senses (doubtful), but at the very least I can make sure NOT to contribute to their bottom line so they can continue to fund bigotry - spread the word!!!

Posted On: Sunday, Nov. 9 2008 @ 4:09PM
EY says:

Okay people, I am sick to death of your stupidity!!!

You keep talking about taking away rights. Well, MARRIAGE IS NOT A CIVIL RIGHT!

This is the SECOND time Californians have voted to ban gay marriage. Californians were given the RIGHT to vote on gay marriage TWICE. And TWICE they have voted to BAN it!

Get over it!!!

Posted On: Sunday, Nov. 9 2008 @ 8:40PM
One among many says:

This country was founded by those escaping religious persecution and zealotry. Let’s keep it that way!

Posted On: Monday, Nov. 10 2008 @ 8:12AM
Oliver says:

To the "One among many" you stupid. You know that no matter what anyone here in the US says we are a country that is founded on CHRISTIAN values and beliefs. Anyone who is a true Christian knows that "gay marriage" and/or "gay rights" is wrong and unsanctioned by all that we believe. And if you want to talk about "religious persecution" what group of people has endured the largest amount of persecution? The Mormons! Did they complain? No. Did they start a civil war? No. Did they go and stand in front of Catholic, Methodist, or Protestant churches? No Did they put signs on peoples fences that said, "Mormon Pride!" or anything stupid like that? No. So don't be stupid.

Posted On: Wednesday, Nov. 12 2008 @ 10:31PM

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